Shopping For A Rifle

[beltbuckle]

I'd call that a good package.



Longer heavy barrels are inherently more accurate but keep in mind you want to hunt with this rifle too. I sure wouldn't want to lug something to heavy through the woods. There are plenty of other variables involved for accuracy as well but we can discuss those issues another time. Your set up will be plenty adaquate for <600 yards.

[GOANRA]

I'd sure agree with the .308 Rem 700 VTR Desert Recon 22''

Scope- Nikon Prostaff 3-9x50 RealTree Camo N/Plex.



Certainly good for 600 yards... if you are.

I like the 50mm scope for dawn/dusk and cloudy days, they really make a bright pic of the target.

Myself, I went with the 300 Win Mag since I don't expect a second shot at long distance.

Love the Mil-Spec, too.

[Izy]

Thanks heaps guys.



Just going over my notes as a newbie in the rifle industry lol



My primary purpose is for deer small-medium-large. Anything will do as long as it's edible lol.



I agree with forgetting about the heavy barreled rifles.. Don't wanna crack my back by the end of the day lol.



Firstly, what do you recommend in the Remington 700 series for a .308?



Secondly, what do you recommend in the Leupold scope series? I'm looking at the mil-dot reticle. What do you think?



Thirdly, I'll be doing alot of shooting at the range, what's a comfortable and easy bi-pod?



Fourthly, for the rifle and scope, I have been researching I need.....



Finally, the size of the barrell, what size should I be getting?



Rifle- Rifle, Rifle bag, Rifle cleaning rod (cleaning equipment), safe, bipod.



Scope- Scope, Scope base, Scope cleaning pen/brush, Scope cover and lens cover if it doesn't come with it.



Am I missing anything? sorry like I said I'm a newbie lol.

[beltbuckle]

The rifle itself comes down to personal preferences. I like the SPS or XCR series myself. I like stainless barrels but there's not a damn thing wrong with a blue'd.



The VTR has a triangular barrel which I have mixed feelings on but dont let my feelings take away from your decision..



If you like the mil dot (which I'm a fan of) your going to be restricted to the Mark 4 series in order to have a Leopold. This is not a bad thing though, the mark 4 is a very good scope and in their upper lineup. The downfall your talking a few bucks.



Another thing to talk about it scope mounts and rings. You dont want to cheap out here (even if you do on the optic) and dont be suprised to spend ~$100 on mounts and the same for quality rings. Then the question is 1 piece or two piece mounts. Ideally 1 piece is the way to go, and you can use a picitiny rail this way. Larue Tactical makes a perfect mount http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=364 This is a nice combo http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=434



Bi pods.... Harris, it's a $100 but it wont fail.



You'll also want a sling if your going to carry it through the woods.



The rest of your equipment you'll need to play around with and find what you like. I'm seemingly always switching around my equipment and cleaning supplies.

[whitehood]

Here's my two cents. First of all you're not really going to do 600 yard/meter shots with a standard hunting rifle and you're certainly not going to do it with a 308. 300 yards/meters is a long way and unless you're going to know exactly your range a 308 is a dog for a hunting rifle. The standard Rem BDL is a 1.5MOA rifle in many calibers, a bit better with good ammunition. It's real strength is that it's good with a cold bore and that's what you really want. Here's a suggestion. Go with the Remington BDL in plain wood and choose it in 270 Winchester. The 270 does everything well and shoots flat. Forget about a mildot scope. Unless you're shooting long range its worthless. For rear focal plane scopes you have to jack it up to full power for it be effective. Even the low end Leupolds are good scopes and you can use the the duplex reticle to shoot at the 300 meter mark. I'd go with the VX3 to 9 by 40. Settle for a 25mm tube, it will sit low along the bore and make it more accurate. Unless you're willing to spend big bucks on a front focal plane scope or a rear focal plane scope with the optics to correct, point of impact will vary with changes in power. Shoot the thing at 6 power. Forget about a bipod, it screws up the balance. Use a shooting bag instead filled with kitty litter and learn to use a set of shooting sticks. You can pick up a bag via Midway for a few dollars. This rig won't break the bank and is good as most shooters are capable. Take this to the bank.

[beltbuckle]

I have to disagree whitehood. Forget the mildot? Thats rediculous, the man says he wants to shoot out to 600 and I say let the man try. The mildot is a good way to do it, all he has to do is learn the system....



Hell, it can be used to determine range if nothing else not to mention Lead or hold offs.....



So what 1.5moa @ 600 12" is still good enough to take down a deer..... and the difference between 300 and 600 is what? 7.5moa? With a 200 yard 0 your going up ~4. mil with a .308.



I will agree with the shooting sticks and the bag. I disagree with your caliber but I'm not going to argue that point.

[whitehood]

A debate sounds good. THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT. I rather like the discussion. Mildot's take time and you don't have a spotter doing the math. Won't work with most hunting situations. The number of people who can consistently shoot game at 600 yards are damned few and use specialized equipment. Secondly shooting animals at that range is unethical. If you want to shoot 600 yards then shoot High Power or F class. There's a lot that go wrong with a cold bore at that distance with an out of the box hunting rifle. You're not using a Dakota, Lazeronni or Ed Brown Savannah. I say learn to shoot first. The Remington is a good first choice and the 270 will take him to 400 if he can make the shot. Again, this is my opinion but a newbie is just not going to that qualified.

[Izy]

Thanks alot guys for your advice. I'll ask more when the time is right lol



Cheers.

[beltbuckle]

Sure you can take time with a mil dot but with today's cheat sheets they all but eliminate the need to calculate much under normal circumstances. A range finder, cheat sheet and some brain power is all you need. I have my doubts that your average hunter (even one with a good understanding of the system) is going to be taking very complex shots.



Thoughts on the BDC? I like these as well but their limitations are obvious. Maybe its better suited to the op's needs.



600 isn't that far, under light wind conditions I don't see what the big deal is. A little homework and some practice at the range and I cant see why this is such a difficult concept.



I'm also curious of your affliction for the 270 over a 30-06 or the 308.

[whitehood]

Lets take the last question first. The 270 does everything well. You can use it for everything from pronghorn to whitetail and mule deer where it excels up to and including elk, though this is pushing the limit. With good bullets like Barnes X it will do the job. It shoots flatter than the 30.06 and runs circles around the 308. With standard duplex reticles like in the Leupold and 140 grain bullets zeroed two inches high at 100, you're dead zero on the bull at 200. Use the thick part of the duplex and you're usually on at 300 and a high hold on the thick part of the reticle will bring you to 400. This is fast and you don't need much but a known range. Much easier to do with a rangefinder than mil dots. Try this with a 308.

As for BDC's they're high ticket items built for a specific cartridge/bullet/loading and it's essentially a sniper tool.

I think mil dots are more of a marketing thing than something that the average hunter can use. For most scopes they only work at a specific power, usually full power. They're most effective ranging known objects of 36 to 72 inches, essentially half a man to a full sized man. Men as targets are in the vertical plane where a fatal wound can be achieved in that 36 inch target zone. Game animals are arranged in horizontal plane where the fatal zone is often no more than 12 to 16 inch ellipse.

Finally long distance shooting is about consistency and that means consistency in every respect. Cheek weld, position, clothing, temp, declination, humidity, height above sea level come to play and often very different when transferred from bench to the field. IMHO 600 yard field shots are blue sky except for the most talented of individuals with the very best equipment and I still think the practice is unethical.