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Self Defense or Murder?

Get informed and debate about civil rights and legal issues such as concealed carry, self-defense, and gun control.

Postby NCCCCWteacher » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:36 pm

In NORTH CAROLINA (I cannot coment about other states) if you shoot some one that is not a threat any longer it is called "imperfect self defence" and you can be charged with man slaughter. It is excesive force. Here are some things to ponder: 1, dead people don't testify. 2, cameras cut 2 ways. 3, proper shot placement with a round of adiquate stopping power will incopiciate an aggressor quicker. 4, if you do have to use deadly force, you WILL need a lawyer.
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Postby tigwelder56 » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:58 pm

Only if the District Attorney files charges. The Florida "Castle Doctrine" law basically does three things:



One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.



Two: It removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when attacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back, meeting force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others. [This is an American right repeatedly recognized in Supreme Court gun cases.]



Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force.



It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for injuring or killing the criminals who have attacked them.



In short, it gives rights back to law-abiding people and forces judges and prosecutors who are prone to coddling criminals to instead focus on protecting victims.



North Carolina's attempt in passing a similar Bill didn't pass due to issues with the way it was written. Here is a petition that is being passed around. You should send it to all of your state politicians.



http://www.petitiononline.com/law4nc/petition.html
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Postby NCCCCWteacher » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:19 pm

Tig, you are right. I am on top of all of that stuff too, lol. I just wanted to point out that it is not necessarly MURDER as such. Yeah, what is odd is that here we can shoot through a door or windo to "terminate an unlawfull entry" but once someone makes it in the dwelling, the must poses AOJ before deadly force is autherised. (you have to be threatened for your life, sexual asult or searous felony to be comitted) There is no duty to retreet in your own home or busness. But no castle law to protect you either.

We also had another law fail. They wanted to do away with the "purchase permit" system. We basicly have to ask the sherrif for permission to purchase or recieve a hand gun, NCGS 14-402.

Isn't that a byte? I have ask permission to excersise a right I put my life on the line to defend. And whats worse is the sherrif can say no just because he wants to! Of course we can go to a district court judge and fight it, but no one ever does. I had to go to a meeting with the chief deputy to get permission to purchase more than 2 handguns in the same year. Just this countys policy.
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Postby tigwelder56 » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:38 pm

The more I read on NC law, the more I was pleased with Florida! I'll trade you some of the heat and humidity for your weather though! I'm truly surprised that NC hasn't come out of the dark ages yet. It seems to be a fairly progressive and grounded state. It's time you got some new Conservative blood in your state Capitol.
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Postby NCCCCWteacher » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:47 pm

Man, it is so screwed up here I am searously thinking about moving. My last duty station was Fairbanks Alaska, now that is a gun user friendly state! But brake a law and you go to jail. 10Years = 10 years!

* NO NEW LAWS! (enforce the ones we have!)
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Postby LiberalGunman » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:58 pm

Tig,

I am not saying I believe the perp's word over the victim. I can only go by the video I saw. In that video, if I was the victim, I wouldn't calmly turn my back on the perp and walk to get another gun if he was still a threat.



What you and G4l are describing is vigilante justice. As much as I want to symathize with that, the law is the law. It is not up to us as citizens to exterminate those we decide are tax burdens. If he shot and killed an unconscious man, that is wrong. If he was still a threat, no discussion. The reality is that we will never know, and the pharmacist will likely not be prosecuted. I won't lose sleep over that anyway.
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Postby tigwelder56 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:22 pm

I'm glad we agree! One loser off the street, for good...
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Postby tigwelder56 » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:45 am

*1 SET OF RULES FOR ALL 50 STATES!

Why does each State have different Rules? We all have the same Constitution! Why can't there be a National Rule as to when Carrying/Shooting is right or wrong?

I took a drive from Fla. to NY. I called each State I was passing through, and each had a different answer. 1 State the Gun Had to be Concealed, the next it had to be on the Passenger seat. The next it had to be unloaded on the Seat. By the time I got to NY, I wasn't even suppossed to have it with me!

I just don't understand why this is not Federally Controlled?

The Purchase is, why not the Rules?

Thanks, Bill
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Postby tigwelder56 » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:52 pm

One of the primary reasons we don't want a Federal mandate on CCW is because the current system keeps your record of CCW at the state level. The rule of law at this time states that when you purchase a firearm, your ID is ran through Federal data bases to confirm your eligibilty to own and purchase a firearm. What you may not know is that the Fed's are required by law to destroy those record requests in a prompt manner. That is required so no Federal record of firearm ownership exists. If you start requiring Federal involvement in CCW law and what is the proper method of carry and/or concealment when crossing state lines, you risk the necessity of the Fed to require registration of ownership. That would be a very bad thing for all law abiding gun owners.



Unless you have a CCW for your individual state, there are no records on file that you own a firearm. Some states are getting stricter on this issue, such as caliber limitations, etc., but there is still no Federal database on gun ownership. At least that's what is supposed to exist (or not exist)!!
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Postby NCCCCWteacher » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:22 pm

Billy, I understand your piont it would be nice if it could work that easy. I allways have students ask me about the laws in other states and I have to say "I can only advise you on NC law, it is your responcibility to know and understand the law of each juristiction you enter" the law can change from city to city and in each county in some states. You did the right thing by calling.
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