Thoughts or Opionions?!

[tigwelder56]

Hey Warren, the answers to your questions are easy to provide. Here's those answers:

1. Florida fee as of 9/15/2009 is $117. (Renewals are $107 every 7 years).

2. Training is listed here: http://www.americanccw.com/ccw-permit-application-requirements.htm

3. No, there is no limit that I'm aware of. You do however have to have them properly concealed. I think this is one of those common sense rules. Carry what is appropriate for the situation and don't get ridiculous. That not only makes the individual look stupid but it negatively impacts the rest of us.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html

[BrianB]

Most of the world have a very diluted understanding of the state of Texas. Mostly in that they feel that Texas is still caught up in the "western" type age, riding horses, having shootouts on main street, etc. Really, go to Europe with a Southern accent and people will think you are Billy the kid.



Texas is pretty much like anywhere else in the US really, except we probably have a much higher amount of trucks per capita.



Texas is a "Shall Issue" state which means as long as you fit their requirements they will give you a permit. Of those shall issue states though, Texas is the strictest as I have been told. In Texas, an applicant must take an 8 hour course to understand the laws of concealed carry, pass a written test as well as a proficiency test with a handgun.



The class will cost somewhere between $100 to $150 depending upon where you go, then the cost of applying for the license in Texas is $140 if you are a normal citizen. Vets and elderly get a 50% discount. That does not mean you get it automatically though because you still have to pass a background check insuring you are not a felon. Fingerprints, paperwork, photos, etc are also checked. Also, be sure you don't make any mistakes on your paperwork or you could well be rejected. If you are rejected, you may have to pay more to re-apply.



So once you have sent it in you may be in for a long wait. It took me 6 weeks and compared to many, I made it through very quickly. For a Texans first license, in lasts four years past the applicants next birthday. So basically, up to 5 years. Afterwards, I would still have to do all the same things but the class and application to the state will each only cost half as much. Each future license will be for 5 years expiring on my birthday.



There are only three states that seem to actually have it right in that they allow carrying without a license, concealed or open, and those states are Arizona, Alaska and Vermont. If I ever leave Texas, Arizona would be my choice.



Anyways, take a look at this and you will see a lot of info on how each state in the country differs and how so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States



Its also very important to know the differences between each states laws. For instance, in Texas there is the castle law. That basically means you can shoot someone on your property, whether they be trying to break into your house, steal your truck, harm someone in your family, harm your property, etc. In other states though, shooting someone for stealing your car may put you in prison. In some states you must try to evade a criminal, basically only when you are cornered, before you can shoot them. So you have to be very careful to know the laws of the state you are in.



Here is what I had to learn to get my license in the state of Texas.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/tchlaws0102.pdf

[tigwelder56]

Best be careful when using deadly force on someone that isn't threatening your life or safety. Just because someone is on your property, attempting to steal your car, shooting them in the back (example) to keep him from getting away with your car, will get you in deep shit here in Florida. Now if you were in that car and a perp is trying to car jack it, shoot away. It's easy to Google your state Castle Law and see exactly how it's worded.

[BrianB]

Absolutely Tig! I suppose I should have definitely brought up the legal ramifications involved in shooting someone for any reason. Though a person may well be within their rights legally, they may still have to go to court, spending thousands upon thousands of dollars to defend themselves. Even then, if they are not found guilty of a crime legally, they could still face civil lawsuits by the person they shot or the family of that person. Its a truly crazy world and its amazing just how litigious this country is.



I know in the course I took there were tons of examples of why it may be better to simply let someone go who is stealing property. It can be hard to allow it, we don't want out stuff stolen, but when you may lose your house to pay for a lawyer, it really may not be worth it saving that big screen TV.



One example I remember hearing about was a man who shot a couple of young guys who were robbing his neighbors house. He had to go to court and when it was all said and done he said if he had it all to do over again that it just was not worth it.



If you have full coverage on your vehicle, its probably better worth just calling the cops and collecting the insurance money and getting a new vehicle than facing the possible repercussions. You could be charged with a felony if you shoot at the vehicle thief, miss, and hit someone across the street. So just because you can does not necessarily mean you should.



Another thing that is something to consider is making sure to understand a situation and whether you should become involved. For the previous situation brought up in the thread of a gas station being robbed, what if you have your children with you in your car and see the store is being robbed by an armed gun man? Is it worth risking your kids lives to go play hero or them possibly growing up without a father even if they are not there with you at the time? What if there is another armed robber inside that you don't see?



Or what if you see someone inside a store shooting someone, so you run in and shoot them, perceiving them to be the robber when in fact they may have been a CHL holder just like you shooting the real robber. Or in turn someone shoots you thinking you are a robber. Lots of tough situations and decisions to make.

[tigwelder56]

The one thing I want to point out, if it's a good shooting (lawful) and no charges are brought against you, if you live in a Castle Law state, you are protected from any litigation, criminal or civil.

[BrianB]

mmmmm, well, not necessarily from how it was explained to me. Apparently anyone can file a civil lawsuit for any reason by right. That is not to say a judge won't see that the lawsuit is ridiculous and throw it out but you can never really know for absolutely sure. Even to get it thrown out though it could cost some just to have that lawyer by your side.



The other thing though is determining whether it was actually legal. You may do everything by the book but there is always the chance some gun hating DA in your area who is trying to make a political statement may disagree because all laws are written with a bit of gray area so you can never be totally safe no matter what you do. Hell, there have been people committing crimes that sued property owners for getting hurt on their property while trying to burglarize them. Now if that is not a sign of uncertain and ridiculous legalities then I don't know what is.



Basically, the best way to look at it from my opinion is whether or not it is worth it to possibly face a possible legal ramification. For the life and safety of my family, absolutely. For my car, eh, maybe or maybe not. Perhaps I would if I have a safe vantage point, know where any and all possibly threats are and that the odds are in my favor and know that no innocent people could get hurt if I do take a shot.



Though if course you never really know how you will react in a tense situation. Hopefully though I don't ever have to find out. but that is a good reason for taking those training classes by qualified instructors, to give you a bit of experience and a better edge should you find yourself in such a situation.

[warren_borg]

Excellent points, both of you. And I apologize BrianB, it was not my intention to offend you or Texans in general. Thank you for your informative reply's.

[BrianB]

Warren, no reason to apologize at all, I was not insulted in any way. It is awfully hard for people to really get a good concept of how any other place in the world is unless they have been there. Most of what we might see of another place is what we get from newspapers, TV, movies, etc. and they are not necessarily going to be accurate. Watching alot of discovery channel could leave anyone to assume that all people do in Australia is chase crocodiles and take walk-abouts, likely just for the purpose of catching crocodiles. For Canada, I could see most people thinking everyone up there cuts down trees for lumber, I don't think I have ever seen anything about anyone else doing anything else up there, know what I mean? It is what it is.

[warren_borg]

Good point. I had a personal view of what New Yorker's would be like, rude, wouldn't give you the time of day etc. After my trip there, my view has completely changed, New Yorker's are great people, just as nice as anybody else. And I probably got my original opinion from movies.



And just to let you know, we are quite civilized up here! (haha)

[warren_borg]

Hey Guys, (and Gal's too), have any of you heard of a, (and forgive me cause I forget the last name), Dr. Ignateous? I stumbled upon his website, somehow, and he exclaimed that he has helped many a US citizen in getting a conceal & carry permit as well as lowering (paying for) the cost on their carry sidearm. I'm sorry I don't have more info on him. I'll try and find the website again, and when I do, I'll let you know.



I had emailed him asking him if he would be able to assist in helping myself with a conceal & carry permit. Maybe I should take his email absence as a negative on the permit eh?