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new pistol for the military

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Postby jdeangelis99 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:18 am

this might have allready been said but i head that the military is talking about going with the kimber 1911
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Postby lotsip81 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:22 am

From the couple of military people that I have talked to, they have said that they don't even know if the military is going to change weapons. It would definitly be a long drawn out process, due to the fact of how many of the Berettas are out in service right now. Plus I'm sure that the military will want to do their own extensive testing to mak sure they are getting exactly what they want.
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Postby beltbuckle » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:42 am

As much as I love the 1911, I highly doubt it will ever be the general issue military pistol again.



I'd be willing to bet the army wants somthing that can fire DA and have higher capacity. Now, with that said I suppose Para could be in the running with their double stack, LDA "1911".



I also sincerely doubt they will be changing pistols any time soon anyway. We've all heard the same things about the rifle calibers too...
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Postby beltbuckle » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:42 am

As much as I love the 1911, I highly doubt it will ever be the general issue military pistol again.



I'd be willing to bet the army wants somthing that can fire DA and have higher capacity. Now, with that said I suppose Para could be in the running with their double stack, LDA "1911".



I also sincerely doubt they will be changing pistols any time soon anyway. We've all heard the same things about the rifle calibers too...
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Postby g4l » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:27 pm

I recently read an article about the rifle round and how ineffective it is, those who oppose a change to a bigger bullet say shot placement solves the problem. Ive never been in the military but I could just guess when things go nuts, shot placement might not be as easy as the critics of a bigger caliber make it seem, but I would bet the critics aren't the ones who have to fight. As for the pistol, in My opinion, 9mm seems so 3rd World for the US military, theres tons of options for the .45, I'm sure it comes down to money though.
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Postby NCSLDR » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:33 am

I am a Soldier and have been for 15 years. I have carried the M-9 and I think that the military should go to a newer model of pistol. Something along the .40 caliber line would be effective, and I want to say that I have heard this same issue brought up recently somewhere else.

As far as other pistols being used in Iraq, I know that some people are authorized to carry whatever they feel they need to accomplish the mission. Those are a few select personnel though and they have a specialized job here. I have seen SF guys walking around with 1911's, Glocks, and Berettas. It just depends on what they feel they need to accomplish their jobs.
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Postby smith6906 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:01 pm

i would be delighted to see the m-9 replaced, in my tour in iraq i was issued the m-4a2 and a m-9, and although the stopping power of a 9mm for self or home defense is quite addiquate, in a combat situation it can be as useful as a bb-gun vs. a train. i think a higher cal, and different weapon are deffinately in order, my unit had the option of arming ourselves with a sidearm and i went with a SIG 226 in .45acp, unlike the M-9 much less sand got into the action wich gave me more of a sense of reliability in the field plus the stronger ammo meant better stopping power while proforming building entrys in very tight quarters. plus they dont have those crappy jap made magazines that the lifters melt on....no use in a gun if the mag is melted into the action when you go to eject it.....
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Postby tigwelder56 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:27 am

I'm curious why your handgun(s) got so hot they were able to melt the followers? How many rounds did you have to fire to experience a meltdown? Did the Beretta magazines issued to the military all come with plastic followers? That would take quite a high temperature to accomplish. I know they used as many polymer parts as possible to reduce weight. The qualifications included high round throughput, which amounted to hundreds/thousands of rounds fired in a short amount of time. If they approved a weapon that had obvious problems prior to approval, would most certainly prove negligence. Did you have to rely on your handgun as a primary weapon? That by itself seems unusual. The amount of ammunition needed to reach the melting point would be high, not to mention prohibitively heavy for a combat soldier. It would be totally negligent on the military's part to allow something like that to continue after they were aware of the problem. There are replacement magazines available that have steel/aluminum followers for the issue Beretta handguns. That type of failure shouldn't be allowed to happen. They need to bring the 1911 back into full time service. I don't think any of the 40 or 45 Glock pistols would disappoint the troops either. I know that the Seal Teams (Team 6) were the first unit issued the model 92. They suffered problems fairly quickly after the slides started to break and would literally fly back in their face. Stronger pins corrected that for the most part but the Teams still opted for the Sig P226 and the 1911.



Please describe the issues you experienced with your Beretta handguns. This could prove to be a thorn in someone's foot... Your description of this problem is very unusual and needs solid clarification. A problem of this magnitude shouldn't be a continuing problem after 8 years of combat use. Can you provide any additional references to this problem? I'm very interested in finding out what's going on. Do tell, please!



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Postby smith6906 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:22 am

well basically from my personal experience, cant really speak for others but, in the summer of 2004 the Marine Corps decided to try to cutt costs on a few things *whoda thunk it* , one of those things was the stamped steel mags that we were issued for our M-9 pitols, the originals were stamped steel with a steel follower, those were quickly replaced with mags that had much thinner metal, and plastic followers, and im not talkign the pastic that you find on glocks or most aftermarket mags. was more of the rubberized junk that some AK mags are made out of, in desert color and extremely flimsy. i only had one melt out of the 4 that i was issued, was on july 19th 2004 when we were escourting a convoy through karbala. we ended up having one of the TSB trucks hitting a roadside bomb and taking heavy fire from the east. the only two weapons i had were my m-4a2 with 5 mags, and my M-9 with 4, within 3 minutes my m-4 was dry so i had to switch to my sidearm to provide covor for other men who still had rifle ammo . i emptied the first mag in under 4 seconds rapid fire towards a stone wall concealing 2-3 men as covor, and reloaded, aqquired the wall again and let off 7 before moving positon behined a different humvee, emptied the rest of that mag rapid fire and moved again while re-loading, took heavy fire from the southeast and empited the third mag as fast as i could while moving behind a stone pillar , when i depressed the magazine release the mag did not drop from the weapon per-usual, but just sat there, i derpessed the switch again and had to forcefully pull the magaizine out, at wich point i noticed the follower was sticking half way out of the box itself and the front end was stringey and looked to have pasted to the pin housing of the slide, i replaced it with a full mag, and had a first round jam due to the melted plastic still being on the pin housing.............least to say i requested a Sig 226 that night from supply, and swore off the m-9 for the rest of my deployment, i dont know if this is a isolated incident or something that others have had problems with, heck i dont even know if they still use those chinese made crapheaps............but your deff right tig...they need to upgrade........i carry a taurus pt92 as a service weapon now, but have never had any failures what so ever on this pistol..........cant say the same for the Beretta though....
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Postby tigwelder56 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:21 pm

Thanks for filling me in on that. Damn, I'm glad that you got out of that situation alive! That's what pisses me off about our government, they'll pay $600.00 for an ashtray or a toilet seat and try to save money by purchasing shit magazines like that for our Military. The idiot making those decisions needs to be sent into battle with the same garbage they expect you to save your butt and your buddy next to you! I don't know how those fools can sleep at night.



I had never heard of or even imagined that something like that could actually happenl These are the things that need to be brought to the attention of our elected officials. We need to yell loud enough that everyone hears about issues like this. There is absolutely no excuse for a blatantly dangerous decision like this was and is.
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